Torchwood: More Smut Meta

[fangrrl_squees]

Hm, fangrrl has smut!meta on the brain. It must be a day with a "Y" in it.

Further musings about Jack/Ianto d/s, as per Negotiation, etc.

So, for all of my ongoing - deep-rooted, in fact - desire for versimilitude and plausibility within most of my fic (sillyfic being the obvious exception, of course) I think I'm going to have to broaden the limits that I'd set on potential Jack/Ianto d/s fun in Negotiation.

The situation is already challenging when one is faced with a cheerfully willing bottom who - to judge by hints and remarks - doesn't have very much in the way of limits and an awful lot of experience. What sort of dirty little fantasies does such a man have left? And it's not like he's going to have any difficulty sharing 'em with a person.

At the moment, I've got a Jack who's declared that any/all recreational fun must be within his quarters - perfectly reasonable, safe places are important - and a fangrrl who believes that Ianto would be very, very respectful of the line between personal and professional. And, lo, I run smack into a wall. I think I'm going to have to have some bleeding-over of situations, or else get used to this snug little corner I'm in.

Recently, my inner Ianto has taken to suggesting - insisting, really - that he's got to push the safe space boundary, and some of the ideas he's got (okay, all of them) are going to impact Jack outside of his quarters. From a quick bit of toppiness in the board room at lunchtime, to the previously-mentioned forced cross dressing idea (I know, I know, I threw that idea out. Ianto rummaged in the trash and made a good case for bringing it back inside), it's going on outside of the previously-decided safe space. And the more I think of it, the more important that is, because Jack does have such broad limits, and broad experience. Ianto's going to be really challenged to put Jack in a situation where Jack really has to trust him not to flambé his psyche, rather than just playing along with him because, what the hell, it's fun.

And, forsooth, that's something that Ianto has to establish right quick - that just playing along is not acceptable. Why yes, I'm planning for that to be the core of whatever I write next - if I write it. Any of you slash-experts willing to beta/collaborate? I just get all embarrassed and tongue-tied when it comes to the explicit bits. Stop laughing, it's true! Setup, plot progression, aftermath, I can hold my own. But the honest to god pervy bits? Embarassment City. I don't know how some of those ficcers out there manage it, srsly.

So, anyways, yeah, I think that Jack would walk into this situation with his usual devil-may-care bit going on, but Ianto must uproot that as quickly as possible and I feel like the current constraints I'm operating under (so to speak) are making that difficult, possibly too difficult.

Granted, I might be overthinking this. I do that a lot.

And, in what has to be one of my more ironic moments so far this year, since tapping the above out on the ol' LJ client at work, I've roughed out the next installment in the story. I might not be the first ficcer to put Jack Harkness in (spoiler removed - plus some people just don't want that sort of mental image) but it was a first for me. I'll post it after it's had a chance to sit for a few hours.

EDIT: Sonofabitch! Ianto just blithely kept on going, and now I'm well into the *next* next bit of that particular torrid tale. However, I see a stumbling block coming up (I won't explain, it'll just ruin the story for the half a dozen folks who actually want to read this kind of thing) but dammit, now I'm all hot and bothered, have forgotten to eat lunch and I've got four hours of meetings about to commence. Damn you, Ianto!

Comments

[ladykoori.livejournal.com]

I'm hardly a slash expert, but I've read enough of it to help pound something out....*shakes head at self, cold meds I swear*:) If you need another set of eyes to look at it, I'd be happy to help.

[fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com]

*LOL* As you're ill, I'll let you get away with blaming that on the cold meds. It's still hilarious, tho'.

As you're at home sick (I'm assuming you are, that is) brace yourself for an incoming email.

[ladykoori.livejournal.com]

oh! yays! My day brightens.

Yes, I'm home sick, trying to convince myself that I really need to go to my night class, but considering I finally fell asleep on my sofa at 6 this morning and then only slept like 5 hours, I think I may not go.

[fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com]

Of course, as soon as I sent it to you, I re-read it and edited a huge chunk. Oops. Ah well, it means you'll see something new when the final version goes online. ;)

[hegemony.livejournal.com]

I'm Lydia, and I've been reading your meta on Top!Ianto, because I've been trying to craft my own. I think your storyline's really interesting, and that however your Ianto came to be in your head, he's damn good at coalescing ideas and waving them in front of your face until you write them. I wish mine did that in the way yours does, sometimes. The story I've been trying to write for a few weeks would be over and done by now, be as all simple as I think it should be, and I would be able to stop angsting over it, for christ's sake.

Although I'm far from a slash expert in Torchwood fandom, I've been writing for a good long while and I honestly would love to take the time to help you find your footing with the more explicit parts of the story, and perhaps help you bounce ideas in times when your Ianto comes up a bit dry. While a lot of my BDSM-related fics are under circumstantially embarrassing amounts of lock and key (and actually have a lot more to do with corporeality than yours seems to, but that's another conversation), I've done them before.

Already, if you're not as red as a fish, you're doing great, probably better than you think you are!

[fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com]

and actually have a lot more to do with corporeality than yours seems to, but that's another conversation

Indeed, I am a thinky sort of kinkbeast. If that makes sense. (No coffee yet, today. Sense is optional)

If you're willing to chat via email/help out as a beta, drop me a line via fangrrl_squees (at) livejournal (dot) com and we can, er, chat.

I've got one volunteer to beta "Exposure" already, but she's admitted that she's a bit green to the whole fic thing in general (everyone starts somewhere!) and having a more seasoned (and, okay, more corporeal-minded) pair of eyes take a gander would be a good thing. Also, the very end of the current draft is a (very filthy) plotbunny for anyone who'd like to adopt it, and maybe it'd give your toppy!Ianto some ideas. ;)

[goetterdamerung.livejournal.com]

To be honest, it depends on if you are talking true Dom/sub, or just heavy Top/bottom.

If it is true Dom/sub, then Ianto will step over the bounday's set by Jack, it is a form of humiliation, Ianto's normal control proves he has the focus to run roughshod over Jack when required.

Otherwise you are talking about JAck topping from the bottom, as in the way he sets the scene, limitations etc. that is not D/s as there is no true power exchange.

If you would like some ideas on Dom/sub behavoiurs, my three smut fic D/s may give you some light.

Starbuck never said you could do that with coffee (http://goetterdamerung.livejournal.com/2007/01/11/)

McDonalds don't make a Fudge Sundae like that (http://goetterdamerung.livejournal.com/2007/01/12/)

As the dawn breaks the night (http://goetterdamerung.livejournal.com/2007/01/17/)

Hope this helps

Götterdämmerung

[fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com]

I think I commented on those fab fics just yesterday in my non-fannish skin - britgeekgrrl. Liked 'em, although the first person POV was unexpected. But hawt.

Anyways,

Your comment causes me to raise an eyebrow as, in my experience in the kink community (broad but not deep, I'll admit, about ten years, starting off as a domme in a house, then retiring from that and limiting it to a hobby basis), limits exist, whether you define the relationship as top/bottom, dom/sub or a hybrid in between.

**Speaking from my experience, YMMV**

Boundaries can be pushed, certainly, pushed until they creak alarmingly but not broken - unless they were negotiated ahead of time as not a real boundary in the first place, just a speed bump to enhance the scene.

I think what we've run into here, is that perhaps we mean different things by the terms being used. So, what do you mean by "true d/s" and "true power exchange"? I suspect it's not what I'm thinking of as, in my experience and in my crowd, when someone starts talking about "true d/s" it usually means "not respectful of limits, and not safe play and therefore just not on"

I've had scenes which had limits and yet did not stifle power exchange. You seem to think the two are mutually exclusive, or am I misunderstanding you completely?

(I'm being very wary of the internet pixies stealing nuance. I'm not being quarrelsome, I just want to be sure that our respective definitions are clear)

Back to those lovely boys you *do* raise a good point in that you've made me realize that I need to better articulate the respective character's goals, and how they mesh (and don't mesh) with each other. At the moment, my draft has Jack initially approaching everything as a bit of a lark, but being brought up short over time, with an eventual transition into edge play - and even into what *I* would consider unsafe play (ignoring limits, etc). An evolutionary process, natch - but one should begin with the ending in mind and perhaps I've lost sight of that amongst some very distracting mental visuals.

Thanks for stopping by!

[goetterdamerung.livejournal.com]

Yes, putting it that way, we are using different terminology to say the same thing, I suppose I get frustrated when ppl misrepresent dom/sub, I have been a Dom for years now and yes of course hard limits are there, but I have noticed in fic, that differenciation is lost and only malleable limits are included.

I fully agree that the non respect of hard limits and safe words is wrong, but I see that as not so much D/s but rather Master/slave sm.

Your idea of developing Jack from hobbyist through to extreme is intriguing and I look forward to seeing the results.

And thatnks for the comments on the fics, I tend to either write in First or Third, but prefer first for smut fic as it gives a more visceral feel.

[fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com]

And, lo, the light is shed. I'm glad. You had me a bit worried there, for a sec. I'm a big fan of limits, I am, whilst simutaneously acknowledging that limits can change (and broaden) over time. Goodness, can they ever...

but prefer first for smut fic as it gives a more visceral feel.

Oh boy, does it ever!

As for the evolution-o-Jack, I dunno if I can do it justice, but it'll be fun to try. :)