fangrrl_squees: (jb - made in a vat by fangirls)
[personal profile] fangrrl_squees
Since I can't join in the squee about Torchwood eps 8 for another eight hours or so (wah!) I'll just dump a load of Torchwood meta here, instead.

As usual, spoilers are ahead.

So, the whole Jack doesn't sleep thing. Interesting - if unforeseen - side effect of having (nigh) immortality thrust upon one, or silly nubbin created by the writers' without much thought?

Here's how I feel about the Jack-is-immortal thing: it's a good idea that's been ruined by being rushed out, half-baked.

I like the idea, I really do. It makes a certain amount of sense. Rose as time-godess brings Jack back from the grave via nifty powerz borrowed from the TARDIS. Naturally there's going to be more than just your run-of-the-mill DC comics style resurrection going on. I can buy into the regeneration bit (see, "nifty powerz borrowed from the TARDIS") and I could even buy into the notion that Jack might need a lot less sleep than regular humans - another aspect of Time-Lord-ish existence conferred upon him by Rose/the TARDIS1.

But-and-however. No sleep? At all? Sorry, can't buy it. He'd go stark staring mad within about three days. Mind you, who's not to say that he didn't, but he's clearly functional now, and there's been nothing to address how that's possible. My own pet theory involves "Russian sleep", that device so beloved of SF writers in the 1960s, or else some serious meditation - something by which the unconscious mind does the necessary information dump every 24 hours or so.

And the does Jack need to eat? debate is another aspect of the immortal!Jack that's irritating me. Never mind the Why does he usually drink water? thing. I think that's just a matter of prefence and taste.

IIRC, [livejournal.com profile] squeakydalek believes that Jack's body/metabolism has been 'frozen' at the point of resurrection, and every time he dies, it returns to that state. Following her theory, it could be believed that Jack doesn't need to eat, or drink, or sleep (or go to the bathroom, or anything of that sort) because he's not burning energy to keep going. Also, Tosh's observation of Jack's mind would fit that theory. Jack is, in many ways, dead. He just hasn't quit moving yet. I think that's a bit morbid, myself, and I'm not keen on morbid.

I dunno, I just feel like the undead/undying Jack plot was bodged together on the fly. Extra refinements to a simple idea ("Can't die. Yeah, that sounds good") were added in because of the dreaded kewlness factor - and devil take anyone who tried to apply even an ounce of logic to the setup.

Yeah, I know, more sleepless nights are caused by trying to apply logic to SF than by the national debt. Sigh.

And, unfortunately, I think the slapdash presentation of Jack's immortality is a microcosmic reputation of Torchwood's most significant weakness. The season seems to be careening from story to story with an off-the-cuff approach to storytelling, rather than an overall season arc in mind. I wouldn't mind that - not all shows can be B5, I know - if it wasn't for the fact that the show's promoters are trying so hard to sell it to us as a clever, sophisticated SF thriller. If you want me to believe that this show is a cut above the usual SF offering, can you at least try to look like you were planning more than one story ahead?

I'm worried that the season ender will be Bad Wolf all over again. Heavily foreshadowed and yet still not making a lick of sense and reading like RTD had to create a plot to fit the clues, rather than the other way around. All of a sudden, some Big Thing That's Been There All Along, Really will be revealed and leave us going "Huh?" As usual, I'd love to be wrong.

However, to offset the rather gloomy sentiments, above, here are the Five Things Fangrrl Loves About Torchwood.

1. The characters are all clearly brilliant, in their way, but prone to making colossal mistakes, too. Yay for geniuses who make bad decisions.
2. Myfanwy. Another manifestation of kewlness factor, but I love me the pterosaurs.
3. Minimal commentary about nookie, especially the same-gender moments.
4. Cardiff as the center of a (potentially) world-threatening space-time rift. Cardiff, for heaven's sake! But it's a lovely change from defaulting to London.
5. Gorgeous production design. Not always sensible, mind you, but gorgeous.


1 - I think the TARDIS had a bit of a thing for Jack, but I'll save that sort of thought for when I feel like stirring things up at [livejournal.com profile] doctard or something. :-D

Date: 2006-12-04 07:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Yay for geniuses who make bad decisions.

Oh, yes! I agree absolutely!

I love me the pterosaurs.

I never had a thing for pterosaurs till this show came along. See how it's corrupted me? (I can hear the derisive pterodactyl laughter from here....)

it's a lovely change from defaulting to London.

Or New York or Los Angeles or any of the other overused cities.

I think the TARDIS had a bit of a thing for Jack

Who could doubt it?

Date: 2006-12-04 07:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com
Who could doubt it?

I'm sure it had something to do with Jack's technique for polishing the brass. ;)

Date: 2006-12-04 07:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
I am sure Jack polishes brass better than most people ever dream of. More, he does it with affection and humour and the kind of sensuous attention he gives every act. What's not to love?

Date: 2006-12-04 08:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com
My inner TARDIS agrees with you. :)

Date: 2006-12-04 07:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fairegoddess.livejournal.com
I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the episode 8.. The episode itself is pretty good, but hoooo boy is there meta fodder. :)

Date: 2006-12-04 07:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dakron.livejournal.com
Oooooooooh, I wanna know what your thoughts are of the last scene, and what evilness ensues from that fodder.

Date: 2006-12-04 08:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snuffkin.livejournal.com
Hi! Just delurking for a bit ;)

. My own pet theory involves "Russian sleep", that device so beloved of SF writers in the 1960s, or else some serious meditation - something by which the unconscious mind does the necessary information dump every 24 hours or so.

LIKE A JEDI! They don't need sleep either but they have this meditation thing going on :O Whoa Jack is a Jedi :O

And the does Jack need to eat? debate is another aspect of the immortal!Jack that's irritating me. Never mind the Why does he usually drink water? thing. I think that's just a matter of prefence and taste.

Oh that's like the vampire question in the Buffy fandom. If he doesn't need to eat and his metabolism got frozen, does he need to breathe? Can he have sex?

But I never thought about that before *lol*

Date: 2006-12-04 08:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com
Oh my.

Jack Harkness is a Jedi and James Bond is a Time Lord. Life just gets weirder and weirder around here. ;)

Date: 2006-12-04 09:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladykoori.livejournal.com
LOL Everything makes prefect sense now.

Date: 2006-12-04 09:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladykoori.livejournal.com
and I can't spell.

Obviously I meant perfect.

Date: 2006-12-04 11:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tamago.livejournal.com
My personal crack-smoking theory is that Jack is Rassilon. Maybe when Bad Wolf said, "I create myself" s/he meant that as the last surviving artifact of the Time Lords, it was time to go back to the beginning and create Time Lords again. It would explain the whole Rassilon may or may not have a special connection with the Doctor thing...

Date: 2006-12-05 12:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com
I'd rather Jack was Omega. Rassilon's a complete dickhead - well, if one goes by BFA continuity, which I know the BBC doesn't give a toss about, alas.

Your theory is probably a lot saner and more plausible than whatever the producers have come up with.

Date: 2006-12-04 08:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seamstrix.livejournal.com
Well, here they have broken their own rule because in 'Small Worlds' with the flashback to Jack's memories of the Indian train and the Fey attack, he was clearly shown to be doing something LIKE sleeping in a hole sort of thing under his office.....with no shirt (and probably no anything *sigh*) on under a blanket. So clearly he does sometimes do something that seems to be sleeping.

Likewise, if he can 'get it up', which neccesitates hydraulic pressure, then he must have a heartbeat/pulse because blood that's just pooling in his veins and arteries ain't gonna do it. Since members of the team have observed him 'jumping anything gorgeous enough', it would seem likely that he can, in fact, perform in the standard fashion.

I haven't a clue about the water thing....

I would think that he would need to eat, maybe not to stay alive but to maintian a normal functional level. I remember reading somewhere that people who die of starvation don't actually die from starvation- they die from the effects of nutrient depletion on their organs and from opportunistic diseases that go wild in the vulnerable body. So, if Jack's organs can't fail and he can't get diseases, then he could go on for a very long, very painful time without food and be very unhappy about it. However, the occasional pastie or moo goo gai pan would probably make him much happier.

Just my rather random tuppence.

Date: 2006-12-04 08:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com
I'm not yet prepared to rule out the idea that Jack eats not because he has to, but because he enjoys it. After all, good food is tasty. :)

Date: 2006-12-04 08:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seamstrix.livejournal.com
Absolutely! Tasty food= good thing. But what goes in must come out....somehow so that infers at least a semi-functional alimentary canal.....

Date: 2006-12-04 09:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com
*nod* indeed

(and, btw, I'm right there with you re: inconsistency about the sleep thing - I just totally forgot to mention it in the initial post)

It's the inconsistency all over that's getting under my skin with this show. Like Doctor Who's been a bastion of internal continuity (*grumble*mutter* half-human, my foot!)

Date: 2006-12-04 09:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladykoori.livejournal.com
I kinda like the Jack frozen in time theory myself, even if it is rather morbid.

However, if one doesn't buy that theory then there is always the thought that Jack doesn't need much sleep anymore and that he tries to avoid what little he does need. Hence the telling Gwen he doesn't sleep. Or something. Whether or not he needs to eat/drink he clearly does it, which would mean he has to be producing at least some waste, though not necessarily in the same form as humans. *shrugs*

There are definate slapdash elements to the whole thing.

And the TARDIS so had a thing for Jack (says the girl who wrote Jack/TARDIS) because honestly who wouldn't?

Date: 2006-12-05 12:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com
Jack/TARDIS?

Share! Share! ;)

Date: 2006-12-05 01:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladykoori.livejournal.com
Its probably not what you're thinking but here it is:

Caresses in the Dark

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