Torchwood: Little Questions

[fangrrl_squees]

As I've been too busy at work this week to have much in the way of coherent TW-ish thoughts - except for occasionally feeding carrots to the more interesting plot bunnies - I'm going to throw out a topic and let you lot kick it around if you feel like. Everyone around here is generally smarter and more eloquent than me, anyways, so I'll probably enjoy what you've got to say more than what I do. But, FWIW, I'll throw in my two cents along with the questions.

And I should mention that I don't mind spoilers in the comments, so if you're spoiler-phobic, dear reader, you might want to scroll on by.

1) Jack and Hand fic. Amusing self-reflexive joke by which fandom proves it can laugh at itself, or proof that some fans will 'ship anything, no matter how creepy?

My thoughts: I like to think that it's the former. Fans that can't laugh at themselves have no business in the fandom. But I worry, reeeeeally worry, that some of those authors rather mean it. And the stuff they come up with! Crikey! It makes doctard look positively sedate.

2) The possibility of a canon Jack/Gwen relationship? Inevitable by season's end, or just a big tease?

My thoughts: I think it's a tease. As I've seen some spoiler-riffic photos regarding Rhys' likely end, I expect that, at best, it'll be a hate-you-but-I-think-you're-really-hawt kind of thing, but I don't think I'll get that lucky. Meanwhile, the occasionally fit of gooey eyes between them is just a tease on the part of the writers and directors, designed to drive the Gwen/Jack 'shippers up the wall. I admit that, when the series began, I thought a Gwen/Jack hookup of some sort was inevitable, but I'm not so inclined now. If it does occur, I expect it'll be rather Klingon in nature - ie, preceded by lots of shouting and thrown crockery.

3) Jack's nature. Dead but not done moving yet, or bizarre human/Time Lord hybrid?

My thoughts: I want it to be the latter, but I suspect the canon reason will be the former.

See, Rose peers into the heart of the TARDIS and briefly becomes (as rpg!Jack calls her) Little Miss Time Goddess. She uses some of that to bring Jack back from the dead but, not being a Time Lord (or even Gallifreyan) herself, Rose doesn't quite know what she's doing and thus Jack returns, but not quite as intended. Granted, that's a justification for either potential state (dead or hybrid) but I must admit that I'm going to go with the allure of "It's so kewl!" and root for bizarre human/Time Lord hybrid in that whatever Rose did to Jack, it fundmentally skewed his metabolism (heck, his entirely categorization as a species) towards that of a Time Lord. Imagine how surprised Jack'll be when he finds out he's got quad-helixed DNA, or whatever...

4) Ianto. Gormless admin who happened to be having a good day in the cunning-plan dept when he rescued Lisa, or secretly the most competent member of the team and pure death in a well-tailored suit?

My thoughts: Another one where I suspect canon will reveal the former, and I'm rooting for the latter. Moreover, I'm dying to know if there's another reason (beyond protecting Lisa and/or (hypothetical) ongoing shagfest with Jack) for Ianto to maintain the Dandy Goth of Coffee and ManPain pose (to quote a popular icon) and what it is. If Ianto turns out to be a mole from UNIT, I will laugh up a lung right onto the keyboard.

5) How much would you pay for a copy of Jack's biography? Suggest the title for your favorite chapter, while you're at it.

My thoughts: I'd cheerfully pay usual market rates for a glossy hardback of The (Mis)Adventures of Captain Jack Harkness, more if it *is* illustrated. Fave chapter: Why I don't date telepaths anymore

Comments

[bovil.livejournal.com]

1) Jack and the Hand: two words... pokemon yaoi. Two more... pikachu seme. There's sometimes a thin line between gag-fic and sporkfic (and sometimes there's no line).

2) Jack/Gwen: Nope. Don't think so. We've already had the shouting and crockery with Owen/Gwen anyway.

3) Jack's nature: The Goddess Rose erased the Daleks from time. I think she also erased Jack's death from time, but she erased it from all time, thus the dead/not-dead insanity.

4) Ianto: He may not be the most competent of the Scooby gang (Owen, for his flaws, is a fantastic M.D. and Tosh is frighteningly competent at any job she tackles), but he's (Lisa aside) probably the most reliable and consistent in his job, and his job is less likely to push him beyond his limits (Lisa was his own fault, and Countrycide was just out in left field). He kind of does have a Sergeant Benton vibe going, though.

5) Jack's biography: Jack's biography, Jack's autobiography or Jack's unauthorized biography?

[fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com]

1) Pokeman WHAT? Man, I'm scarred for life, now.

2) Fair 'point. Looks like those two are back to the shouting but without the fun payoff - or certainly will be after next week, if the trailer is anything to go by.

3) Interesting twist - erased from all time, I mean. Of course, if Rose erased the Daleks from time then Jack wouldn't have been killed in the first place (nor Lynda-with-a-Y and all) and therefore Jack wouldn't *need* resurrecting but if I start thinking about that too much, I get a terrible headache have to have a lie down and a cup of tea.

4) Sgt. Benton vibe? I always confuse him with Captain Yates. Is Benton the one that the writers later decided was gay, alcoholic and clinically depressed, or am I thinking of Yates?

5) Autobiography, but bonus points if you address the unauthorized biography too, because (aside from, y'know, dunderheaded mistakes or maaaaaybe emotional vulnerability) I can't imagine what Jack wouldn't bother to disclose in a book by his own hand.

[bovil.livejournal.com]

Yates was the flirty officer who betrayed UNIT to the utopian cult in Invasion of the Dinosaurs but survived, was allowed to resign and made a few further appearences.

Benton was the all-work sergeant who exhibited occasional surprise flashes of humor. Don't know about what happened to the post-TV version.2

[fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com]

ah well, apologies for the platefull of spoilerstuff there, then - although given my memory, only about half of it's probably accurate.

[bovil.livejournal.com]

Wikipedia to the rescue... Yates is the one that Cornell alludes to being gay in Happy Endings.

[fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com]

Ahh, good ol' Wikipedia. Thankyer!

[bovil.livejournal.com]

Two new bits from "Out of Time" on the Torchwood Hub website.

There's an IM transcript that implies that Owen and Gwen are still fooling around a bit, even with the fights.

There's a journal filed under the "Emma" section from a Torchwood employee in the late 50's that talks about a guy who fell through time from the future sometime around the beginning of the 19th century...

[fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com]

Ah, excellent. I'd heard there was some new material on the site, I just hadn't had time to get to it yet.

(and if the journal refers to Jack, that fits in nicely with the theories I've been cooking up...)

[moviegrrl.livejournal.com]

I'm too full of cold to discuss this one too much babe, but all I will say is Jack/hand porn is sometimes very very very hard to resist. (Especially when you're already writing hand drabbles...)

[agentxpndble.livejournal.com]

1) Jack and Hand fic: Well you *know* how I feel about the hand... :::GACK::: But what you don't know is that I didn't know about doctard and it's sooooooo where I belong. :))) And *that* ties heavily into my response to #3...

2) The possibility of a canon Jack/Gwen relationship?: Well, it would really be getting silly if they did - I mean that would really have *everyone* sleeping with *everyone* which would begin to annoy me. I hope they tossed that card out the second we got Gwen!Owen.

3) Jack's nature: Or I guess I take this to be about his physical condition... Bovil keeps bringing up really interesting ideas - The "erased his death from time" thing does sound very intriguing and entirely possible.

But I've been assuming it's more of a biological programming issue (like the nanogenes?) The TARDIS/Rose decide he should be alive and "rewrite" his atoms - Not taking into account any of the spiritual realities that may be at play (souls, external religious entities, etc.) So part of his physical make up changes? Time Lord atoms in him? Are his atoms reprogrammed to regenerate/remake themselves indefinitely? I've never liked the idea that Jack is simply dead and just doesn't "realize" it - I think it's more that the physical parts of him just keep checking in with the head atom in his body and keep getting told to stay alive/regenerate - Forever - Because they are programed to "live".

I read a fanfic a while back which planted an interesting idea in my head that I can't shake... What if Rose is having the same problem? What if she can't die either after the vortex was pumping all through her as well?

Regarding the whole Rose-Goddess thing, though... I guess I'm always surprised when I suss that people see that whole time vortex incident as Rose using the TARDIS - That it was just her (in charge) using a tool. I think what blew me away about all that is that it seemed so clear to me that it was both Rose and the TARDIS acting/speaking/etc - That while Rose started it all trying to use the TARDIS as a tool to save the Doctor, it seemed to me that the TARDIS possessed her in the end (I've always understood the TARDIS to be a being/alive) - and I'm still struggling with how much was TARDIS speaking and how much was Rose. Personally, I feel it was the TARDIS in control ever so slightly more than Rose - That Rose and TARDIS were speaking dually and each had a certain amount of control over the situation. But they were both a bit fractured, I felt... Each having difficulty for different reasons - Rose, struggling with the unfamiliar vortex/knowledge in her mind and the TARDIS, perhaps of limited sapience? The moment when Jack was brought back felt to me like the TARDIS acting on Rose's desires. And the TARDIS (in my opinion) may be alive but it sure as hell isn't human so who's to say how cohesive an act like that would have been - Bringing Jack back to life would have been a quick, impulsive, physical act not a well thought out plan. (Unless Bovil is right and it was about time, not atoms.)

Ugh, I can't get any of this out right... Let me see if my own thoughts on it gel someday into something I can relate in words. :-(

4) Ianto. If Ianto turns out to be a mole from UNIT, I will laugh up a lung right onto the keyboard.

ROFLMAO! Seriously, I think it can be both. I see a freakish amount of myself in Ianto. I think what drives him is loyalty. Loyalty to the death. Who (or what ideal) he's loyal *to* may not a) be right or b) make logical sense but once that loyalty is imprinted... He'll die before he lets it go. And he's an Office Manager - by calling, not circumstance. If I worked for Torchwood that's what I'd be doing... Making coffee and keeping the stock room supplied (and properly logo'd.) It's what I do - It's what I *am* - And the world would grind to a halt without us. Although someone posted a story today which suggested he might have been a Cleaner before Canary Warf - Which is really pretty interesting, actually...

5) How much would you pay for a copy of Jack's biography?: Oh, as much as anyone I guess. But I feeling pretty patient. As long as what they give us doesn't contradict itself or turn out to be just plain annoying, I can wait for it.